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The Lightsabre Interview Simon J Williamson
Welcome to
Lightsabre. Were thrilled to
introduce you to the puppeteer behind Max Rebo, the Gamorrean Guard, Dark
Crystal and The Muppets. Please
welcome Simon J Williamson. Q - Simon, welcome to
Lightsabre. A Thank you, Mark, it's nice to be asked. Q What has it been
like to be a part of the Star Wars phenomenon? A- Well, because of
my work on DARK CRYSTAL, which we finished shooting at the same studio a few
months before, I was already known to them, so they asked me to get involved.
So, it was flattering and exciting. You can imagine the kind of momentum Star
Wars had developed by the time THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK came out, and the
level of anticipation being generated for REVENGE OF THE JEDI - as it was
called at the time - was huge. I had also only been acting professionally for
less than 18 months, and it was very high profile work to get. I had always
hoped that acting work
would take me all over the world, and although that has happened less than I
would have hoped, in the last year and a half, the world of fan conventions
has also opened up for me and that adds another level of excitement and pride. I'm now
invited to places such as the USA, Europe and Japan. To have been involved in
something that still resonates, so many years later, is extraordinary. I
think George Lucas tapped into something very special, and it's humbling to
be part of something so huge and so meaningful to so many people. Q Your work as a
puppeteer has been featured in numerous films including Dark Crystal for Jim
Henson, a trio of Muppet movies, and
Little Shop of Horrors for Yoda himself Frank Oz, yet you are internationally
best remembered for your role as Max Rebo in Return of the Jedi. How do you feel about that? A - I read something
on the internet along the lines of if the Simpsons
had a favourite character it would be Max Rebo, and that Max was "cool!". What more could you ask for in life, to be
proclaimed "cool", its so ... cool. But
seriously, he's a very memorable character. In a Muppet film I'm likely to
have to describe my involvement as something
like "Er, I was the third chicken from the
left when the horse and cart went by. no not that
one, THAT one.."), and in Little Shop of Horrors I'm part of a plant! Max, however, is
instantly identifiable, memorable...cool. Having said that, an actor's face
does need to be recognised to generate more work, and it's a little difficult
if you're wearing any kind of mask. But thankfully I have also played parts
on stage and TV where my face got seen. Now, in the latest incarnation of my
career, as a writer-director I hope one day I'll be as well known for that as
for playing Max. Frank Oz will always be Yoda (and Miss Piggy), but he's also
celebrated as a director, with some great work such as Little Shop of Horrors, Bowfinger
and Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. He even got to direct Marlon Brando
in The Score. Q - Tell us something
of your career. How did you begin in
entertainment and what led you to where you are today? A
I originally wanted to be a
scientist, studying Zoology at Cardiff University, in Wales. While I was
there, I also took up karate and competed in tournaments for the university
team. As it turned out, my martial arts-influenced movement style appealed to
a number of physical theatre companies, and I started working with them. By
the time I got my degree and qualified as a zoologist I had already fallen
under the spell of the "Dark Side", or "theatre" as it's
sometimes known. I came to London, auditioning for a show in an Off West End
theatre, was offered it and moved from Wales to London overnight. I've lived
here ever since. One day there was an advert in The Stage newspaper for
"Equity Actors, Dancers and Mimes" (Equity is the actors' union) to
work on a groundbreaking new film being made by Jim Henson, then known for The Muppets. The kind of work described in
the advert was somewhat vague, but the film turned out to be THE DARK
CRYSTAL, and after an intense series of workshop auditions with Swiss mime
Jean Pierre Amiel, I was chosen to be one the ten
"mime artists". I was in the first group of 4, who worked all the
way through the film; the other 6 joined us a few months later. We were a
separate group from the regular Muppet performers, who did most of their
performing upright, (ie The Skekses)
whereas we were usually bent over in excrucutiatingly
uncomfortable positions as the Mystics (UrRu).
While we were in preproduction and rehearsal for DARK CRYSTAL, they were also
filming THE GREAT MUPPET CAPER at the studio, so we mimes were called in to
do some background muppets whenever there was a
puppet-heavy sequence. Jim Henson would give us puppetry workshops once a
week. He was a man dedicated to his craft, as well as running a big
organisation with benevolence, humour and fairness. I was privileged to be at
his memorial service at St Paul's Cathedral in London, and to see and hear St
Paul's subjected to an irreverent chorus of Muppets in full voice was
incredibly moving. The route to RETURN OF THE JEDI was quite simple. Having
been in DARK CRYSTAL, which had been also been filmed at Elstree Studios,
when they started preproduction on JEDI, I was asked to come on board. In
between I had done a BBC Shakespeare play. So it was a busy time for me. Q Given your many roles
on the set of Jedi you must have gained quite an insight into the
production. How did it feel to be
working on what was then the most anticipated film in movie history? A I knew my way around Elstree after DARK CRYSTAL knew
something about puppeteering on large scale film, after nearly a year in
production. But at the end of the day, you can't allow the reputation and scale
of Star Wars to faze you, every scene has things which need to be achieved,
so you concentrate on the work, moment by moment, beat by beat. But the
puppets or creatures, particularly on the Jabba set, were secondary to the
main cast. I did enjoy terrifying Howard Kazanjian,
though, the first time I got into the Gamorrean Guard costume. They had had
some background artists
(extras) in the costume and some of them had fainted on set - so myself and
another mime, Hugh Spight, decided to show Howard Kazanjian how a Gamorrean Guard could move and how extreme and violent they
could get. We got to play most of the Gamorrean Guards from then on. So there
was a lesson there in pushing oneself forward. Sometimes on a busy set, you
can get lost and forgotten, so it doesn't pay to be too shy about showing
what you can do. Q Working on Jedi
you covered a number of alien characters, from Max and the Gamorrean Guard in
Jabbas Palace and on the Skiff to a Mon Calamarian officer during the Death
Star battle. What were those various
environments like to work in? A Jabba's palace was hot, sweaty and smoky, the dungeons were. hot and sweaty, the sail barge was... hot and sweaty.. the Mon Calamari set was .. a breeze, so nice not to be in a costume that was as tight as Max Rebo and The Gamorrean Guard. I have to say I always love being on a large, well-built set. The first one I ever worked on was The Mystic Valley on DARK CRYSTAL. Although, in the prequels, George has firmly gone down the path of using CGI sets, for me there's nothing like being on a proper set. They all have great atmosphere that can't help but stimulate the imagination and make the acting richer. To have characters and objects to which you can physically relate and touch, on a set, is so much easier than blue screen. In one sequence in Jabba's Palace, I was a Gamorrean Guard (Gartogg) looking down on myself as another Gamorrean Guard (Jubnuk), falling through the floor and being attacked by Rancor, the pit monster, and across the room, there I am as Max Rebo. Schizophrenia has never been such fun. Ultimately, 'though, being inside a costume or manipulating a puppet, that becomes your immediate environment. My work on DARK CRYSTAL prepared me for Max Rebo. Although Max is bulky, you needed to be agile and fit to get inside the costume and then have the stamina to cope with the heat etc. With the Gamorrean Guards, I was able to take off the head in between shots, to cool down. Picture the scene my Gamorrean Guard with a cooling fan wedged between my propped-open jaws ... and a hairdryer thrust down the front of my trousers - sounds like a night in a Soho nightclub - (or so I hear). It's a lot of fun playing large, lumbering, stupid characters with mucus dribbling out of their noses. I used to get rid of my aggression by doing karate, but as a Gamorrean Guard I rarely have to attack anyone, I just threaten to dribble all over them. Very effective. On the Rebel Alliance set, the Mon Calamari were basically humanoid and upright, and the scope for doing something special with movement was much less. You can't fight the naturalistic style implied by the costume. However, the hands were like a cross between a spare rib from a chinese restaurant and a flipper, and I used a sort of neurotic, panicky undulating movement - particularly when they were under attack.
Q Did Max actually have to learn where the keys would be on
his instrument, or was it all added during post? A - I can't
play a note on any keyboards - even my typing is slow and frequently
inaccurate. However, research is everything, so I talked to a musician friend
and made some basic decisions on where the various keys would be, and took
home a tape of the music so I could practice
the night before the shoot. What you may not know about Max is that, he was a
half-puppet and had no legs, so I assumed Max played the organ with his feet.
Therefore when he was not at his keyboards I imagined he hopped around on his
two "hands". It was only when pictures of a full length Max Rebo
appeared in books and comics that I realised he had legs, too. The discovery
was traumatic and I subsequently required much therapy. Q What would you
change about your Star Wars experience if you could go back and do it again? A
In view of my present intention to
direct, I would make sure I asked a lot more technical questions of the crew
and particularly the camera department. I'd have paid much closer attention
to all Richard Marquand's choices as a director
(although it would have been impossible from inside Max Rebo, as I couldn't
see out of the costume), and I would have taken more addresses and telephone
numbers from anyone with whom I would conceivably collaborate in the future.
I'd also make sure I kept my call sheets - a lot of the fans are keen to see them. I'd probably ask
for my Gamorrean
guards to have more drool. Oh, and I would have allowed Carrie Fisher to fondle
Max Rebo's trunk. She kept on asking..... Q As an
accomplished puppeteer you must have been in your element on the set of Jedi. For a film mixing puppets with actors,
unlike the Dark Crystal which was entirely puppets, what was the atmosphere
on the set like? A
I wasn't sure about the wisdom of
allowing humans on set with us puppets, but Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and
Carrie Fisher generally coped well. Puppets are notoriously more
temperamental than humans, and, apart from Carrie's abovementioned constant
desire to grope Max Rebo and all the Gamorrean Guards, there was little
disruption. I'd have to say the actors were "almost like
professionals". As for Jabba... well, I'd prefer not to comment, under
the circumstances. I want to live. No, seriously, they were very different
films and I'm glad to have experienced both. DARK CRYSTAL was one of the most
exciting and unusual projects I have ever been involved with, and physically
very demanding. We had to train like athletes and have special diets to
minimise any circulation problems from being in painful and crouched positions
for hours at a time. Compared to the Mystics (my character was UrSol, The Chanter) in DARK CRYSTAL, playing Max Rebo in
JEDI, although hot and uncomfortable inside the costume, I was largely upright
and it was therefore less exhausting to maintain a performance take after
take. Q You have broadened
your scope into the field of directing, tackling a short film called The
Right Hand Man, about a card game in Cardiff.
Tell us something about that. A It's actually the
third film I've made, but this is the first I felt was good enough for
exposure internationally. THE RIGHT HAND MAN had its World Premiere at
DragonCon - which is a big Sci Fi
/Fantasy Convention in Atlanta. It's a rites of passage story about a young
man who is eager to learn the techniques of all about becoming a card-sharp,
But he gets overconfident and cocky and is taught a lesson not so much a
lesson in cards as in life. It's a comedy drama and is a little under 18 minutes
long. I have some stills and a synopsis on my website (www.simonjwilliamson.co.uk).
It was at the Cardiff Screen Festival, too (it's set in Wales) and it's also
making an appearance at The Cannes Film Festival this year. I'd like to make
a film about the convention circuit, but the first section of GALAXY QUEST
does it so well, I'm not sure there's room for anything else, just yet. But
maybe one day. Q The Star Wars TV
series is due to take off in the next few years. Would you be interested in a position on
the show? A Well, because of my directing plans, acting is generally on hold for a while, but I'd love to get the opportunity to direct an episode or two... so if George or Rick McCallum are at The Cannes Film Festival this year, THE RIGHT HAND MAN can be seen there, and I'm attending the Festival from 18th to 23rd May, to drum up interest in a proposed feature film. But any opportunity to take part in The Star Wars TV series, in front of or behind the camera, would be difficult to resist. There's also talk of a DARK CRYSTAL sequel, and my character, UrSol, is meant to be heavily featured. But news of this project seems to have run dry.
Q - What do you
foresee in the future for yourself? A
I'd like to make the above mentioned feature
film, called MANXED. It's a comedy about an actor who appears in a low budget
film, which indirectly causes a series of other disasters in his life. It's a
little like Martin Scorcese's AFTER HOURS in tone. After
that I have several other film and television projects to make, and I look
forward to whatever good surprises and opportunities
life may bring working with new people and old colleagues. And I'd like to continue
my foreign travels to Star Wars and SciFi/Fantasy
Conventions. Q A quick question
about our site, Lightsabre. Any
comments? A Yes, stop making other sites look bad. It's not fair,
Mark. It's full of great stuff and I like the artwork Q - It's been a great
interview, and thanks for being our guest on Lightsabre. Just one final question. Max Rebo, Gartogg
and a Muppet are guests on a cookery show.
The host asks them to concoct the wildest dish they can think of. Which one comes up with the winner? A Max
is your typical band member, he puts all his energy into his music and the
thought of spending time concocting any kind of dish is anathema to him. Besides,
the food he eats has to be sucked up through his feet - so we're talking
liquid or, at the very least, "sludge", when it comes to Max's
Snacks. He's a wild musician, not a cook. He might try and smuggle in some
readymade Wookie Cookies and Yoda Soda and get disqualified, though. Gartogg is, frankly, a bit slow mentally and not too hot
at spelling either. Should he ever go anywhere near a cook book, he would
misunderstand. If it said "baste",
he'd bash, if it suggests "frying"
he'd start flapping his arms, and he'd probably
get his hands stuck in the liquidiser, as well I mean, it's possible he would
come up with the most extraordinary dish in the universe, but it would be
pure luck. And with the notorious Gamorrean appetite, he would eat it before
the judge came round to award him his prize, thus destroying the evidence.
Hopeless. My vote for winning cook would be a Muppet, but not all muppets - I mean, Animal would just throw all the
ingredients around the room, for example. The particular Muppet winner would
be, of course, The Swedish Chef, with a concoction called Yeti Spaghetti,
with a Fizzy Bear sauce. The ingredients are secret and difficult to pronounce,
(unless you speak Swedish) but it is wild. Runner up would be Gonzo, with his
Gonzo Gumbo. Of course it's not the winning that's important,
it's the baking-part. (GROAN) |
